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Barraca

Are Marketplace's really important?

I've been playing banished since late 2014, and started using CC when Curse of the Golden Llama 1.4 just came out back in March of 2015.

And I always personally hated using market places. They take up so much space and have such a large footprint and have very little storage for there massive size. so they don't even hold a lot of whatever they are holding and distributing.

Really that is my only complaint about them, they have so little storage space by per tile for the space they occupy, and for the area they service the don't cover a very large area going off of (market footprint)/(total area serviced) the larger markets' cover and occupy a large percentage of the area they cover to what they service.

And the small ones are nice for there size to the area they cover but then you have the problem of lots of citizens doing essentially nothing and the amount of stuff they hold is only enough for 2 people worth of food to carry. I watched a market cart before and it would constantly go from 9%-100% to 0 to 100% full capacity nonstop.

 

Okay I'm kind of ranting and not explaining my main purpose, the point of this post is, how useful or not useful are marketplaces? I have done games and built city's before with no to barely any marketplaces. I tend to just not build them but sometimes I do. Just encase maybe they help in some way. Or are they purely just cosmetic? And then I tend to not even staff them at all if I do build them.

I just want to know do they actually help with productivity or don't?

I wanted to run an experiment or if anyone knows already. if I build a network of marketplaces that overlap with each other do the vendors take stuff from other marketplaces to put it in theirs? I tend to build mass production centers. all food production in this area, all clothes produces in another all tools produced in another and all mining in a corner.

Another question is, if they are useful and I should build them, which is the best one? has the most storage? Or is best for servicing a large area for its size? I tried finding as much information as I could before this post; but most of all the market buildings don't have complete info on there storage capacity on them in the megamod. Only a few of the marketplaces have there data in the data sheets. Along with a lot of other missing data. That I am experimenting and trying to figure out myself.

Thanks in advance for any replies or help, would really appreciate it.

Especially since the beginning of me playing banished I've always never was for the large market place, looks nice but...

P.s. This was written at 3am in the morning/middle of the night hope you can read it and understand what I'm trying to say

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Not quite an answer but perhaps a half-answer... I've always tended to think of markets as a way to stop workers from having to travel to barns and warehouses to collect items. If placed in the middle of a housing area, the market centralizes the location of those needed items so the workers can spend less time travelling between home, workplace and storage.

How much this affects their productivity I think is a case of working out how far they would need to travel to collect food, tools, clothes etc. etc. if they had to visit different areas of a town to get resupplied. Having the market right next to their homes obviously reduces the travel time they need to get food or tools. Of course you could just have a bunch of barns/warehouses in the middle of your housing area but barns/warehouses have far less control over what gets stored in them, I get the impression that with markets the workers try to get a decent range of products rather then stocking too much or too little of any particular item.

And of course, the real plus for any market use is that there are a reasonable number of mods adding smaller marketplaces to the game - I think I have about four or five individual marketplace mods running alongside the markets provided by larger mods such as NMT, CC and Small Town Rowhouses. I have enough variety so that I can have everything from small to huge market areas to better fit the different areas of the map.

In regards to what is the best marketplace, this I believe comes down to your individual ideas and the way your town is set out. As mentioned, I use a variety of markets with smaller ones being ideal for remote areas (that I use for say hunters, gatherers, foresters or miners, quarrymen) and the larger ones for areas where I want lots of housing. I also have a tendency to have a bit of overlap of the market radius if I'm trying to build a really big housing area. I also put small "industrial" markets in areas where there's a lot of workplaces, (e.g. mines, quarries) so that the workers don't have to travel back home to get tools, clothes or special resources.

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Thanks for the answer "half answer" haha.

I put bank barns(best storage for food and a large variety of almost everything) everywhere near houses and production areas, along with some of the specialized warehouses, the stone and iron warehouse and then the wood dock storage. I use the megamod only. And those buildings are the best for highest storage per tile.

The other thing I was wondering is if they help with industrial production. I noticed for example some of my marketplaces would have stuff like iron ore and feathers and reeds. 

I asked about the cross coverage thing because I was wondering if they happen to chain on eachother, like materals or food travel across the markets to evenly distribute them out or do the workers just walk all the way across town to collect them from the source.

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I'm not sure how others do theirs but I have a larger main one near the starting point, then I keep the radius open and place 1 smaller one (vendor carts, travelling vendor etc), with their radius just touching, or overlapping by 1 tiles, a the 4 quadrants, then as I build into areas I add additional ones, for my outposts etc, each one will have their own travelling vendor or farmers market, AND I always add 1 herbalist from the puzzle marketplace (1 x 2) so that all my outposts will always have herbs regardless of what else fills the market in that outpost.  
Nearly all outposts have a gatherer & hunter so a food merchant never really gets added, unless it's a mining or 'workshop' based outpost away from the main area.  In which case I add a travelling vendor cart / small market, then I add a herbalist, food & tools vendor from the puzzle market.  Maybe overkill, but so far I've had even distribution.

Even if I'm just land clearing and terraforming I drop in a small marketplace so that the workers get items "on the go". :)

I did ask somewhere else a similar question, and it was my understanding that market vendors won't take from other market vendors - BUT - the storage barns, where you can decide what the storage unit holds in them, they will take from anyone ...  BUT ...  I haven't had confirmation of that, and I can't remember the exact context, I'm happy to be proven wrong :D:D

Edited by QueryEverything
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@Barraca Interesting question and one that I really have no idea about other than what I "think" has been happening based on the idea of trying to keep worker's homes as close to the workplace as possible to reduce travel time when they need food or warmth etc. etc. The workers wandering back home for food etc. etc. definitely affects productivity so I have come to believe that placing homes as near a workplace as possible and then placing a market within the housing area (to further reduce their travel distance when they need to get supplies), helps productivity. It may not boost it much perhaps but it certainly doesn't make it worse lol.

Having said all that, my answers are derived from what I think is happening in various towns I've made but I know my perception of what is happening and what the game mechanics actually do have sometimes been vastly different! 

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I will agree with you there on having houses close to the workplace. I have definitely seen in my games, a huge jump in productivity when I put my houses next to or closer to the workplace. I guess the overall purpose of this thread is to figure out how to further increase productivity.

A question im kind of having now is. who brings materials to the workplaces? is it by the workers only or is it by laborers and vendors too when they have free time? I never really paid attention to that before if that is a thing. Because I have had some workplaces far from there resources before and as far as I could tell(maybe didn't pay attention too much) their production wasnt hindered or maybe it was and didn't notice. haha. But im sure I would have noticed if it was significant and they were producing nothing.

And I hope someone else can give some insight to the market place mechanics,as people see this post

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19 minutes ago, QueryEverything said:

I'm not sure how others do theirs but I have a larger main one near the starting point, then I keep the radius open and place 1 smaller one (vendor carts, travelling vendor etc), with their radius just touching, or overlapping by 1 tiles, a the 4 quadrants, then as I build into areas I add additional ones, for my outposts etc, each one will have their own travelling vendor or farmers market, AND I always add 1 herbalist from the puzzle marketplace (1 x 2) so that all my outposts will always have herbs regardless of what else fills the market in that outpost.  
Nearly all outposts have a harbalist & hunter so a food merchant never really gets added, unless it's a mining or 'workshop' based outpost away from the main area.  In which case I add a travelling vendor cart / small market, then I add a herbalist, food & tools vendor from the puzzle market.  Maybe overkill, but so far I've had even distribution.

Even if I'm just land clearing and terraforming I drop in a small marketplace so that the workers get items "on the go". :)

I did ask somewhere else a similar question, and it was my understanding that market vendors won't take from other market vendors - BUT - the storage barns, where you can decide what the storage unit holds in them, they will take from anyone ...  BUT ...  I haven't had confirmation of that, and I can't remember the exact context, I'm happy to be proven wrong :D:D

I tend to only really build marketplaces at far away areas of my cities, I am going to make a city that is high density and more manufacturing focused, so I am going to build marketplaces everywhere to experiment. I have made a city that was very large without any marketplaces. and somewhat had no problems. so going to see the difference now. 

And is herbalist that important? haha I always make sure to build one in the middle of my city because I know they need it to get herbs to eat. but I dont build them everywhere.

And I still wish and long for the day when I can just say and mark what thing to not put or to only allow things into a curtain barn, and to tell my citizens they are banned from eating certain foods. STOP EATING ALL MY HONEY AND DRINKING MY MILK. I feel like im always yelling something like that to my citizens.

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Well there's also this thread to think about...

@haris built a town and relied on traders to bring all the food, I believe they made use of an extensive marketplace setup to distribute the food (there was massive export of jade statues to pay for the food). I'm inclined to think that this would be far less effective if all the food, tools, etc. etc. was just stored in barns and citizens had to collect if from them - a market means the market workers collect the food, tools, clothes etc. etc. from the various barns and the citizens get everything they want from one place rather than (potentially) travelling to two or three different sites.

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Also, the vendors do carry a much higher amount of items at a time.  I think it's 100 units (weight??) to the Bannie's 6 (i think, I'm foggy), so the market vendors do distribute far more quickly.  BUT - in saying that, the traders also do have the higher numbers as well.

As for the herbalists @Barraca because they produce so few at a time, I use the herb vendor in the puzzle market to make sure they are distributed evenly across the land, in case of an outbreak.
I have a Dr & herbalist + herb vendor in every outpost, the influenza & mumps is vicious!! :D

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I like to use the Traveling Wagon Vendor in MegaMod because it is small and serves a smaller area.  That way I can make smaller "townlets" and spread out more.

So I'll have two town centers, some distance apart, servicing the industrial/food area between them, for example.  Kind of a North Pole/South Pole kind of thing.

I also put a Magazine and a rather large stockpile just outside the market's radius to keep things closer for the merchants to grab.

 

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wow,lots of good points. not sure if i will be of help or confuse more. i used to not use markets. figured it was too commercialized and the banis don't use money.i started to use them to stock far off corners of the map in mining areas or production areas,mainly to bring food and tools. most villages i would produce food and stocks to support each by itself.

   over time i have learned to use markets more for various reasons. 1 they do carry lots more.  if you are clearing an area to build,the laborers can cut down trees and break stones,the local vendor can do pick up and transport back to storage.  i believe this makes the clearing go faster. i also have seen banis walk past a town with barns full of food and they were hungry. they were going away from their home not toward it to eat.this town was a distance from their home. worrying the bani was going to starve for being stupid,i started to put at least a small market near bridges or cross roads or other heavily traveled areas.

   yes the markets help with productivity but that was lower on my priority list. i opted for growth and expansion. town function and looks even was given more thought than productivity. each person's game play or style changes over time and with experience.

       back to what PAENG said on the banis' mind sets. i think there is assumed functions thqat differ from his points,wrong assumptions apparerntly. from my reading here and there, i thought the vendors would shuffle items from each other as well as from barns. i thought i read where they were competeing for stocks somewhere once. workers not using a market at ALL, the idea has always been they take from the closest place.if that close place was a barn they go there as long as it was stocked,then to the next closest if that was empty.this is 2 pints against productivity. if they are inside the market circle ,then instead of going to the closest barn,they go to the market to collect supplies.such strange creatures. the herbalist is more awkward.instead of going to the herbalist and him supplying the medicine,the bani has to find the medicine himself 1st and again not from the closest place but has to be from a market.that is odd. i normally use a cellar of barn near the herbalist. these points could change how we place things on our maps.

   PAENG "VENDORSALSO DELIVER SMALL STOCKS OF "PERSONAL USE ITEMS(TOOLS AND COATS) TO THE STORAGE BARNS THEY VISIT." that is an interesting point. i have questions with that. i have been told this does not happen and must have been a glitch.when i first started to use markets,as i said it was to stock a far off area for a mining town. this was way up in the top left corner on the other side of a huge lake.to get there was a hike over several bridges as well. it has been a long time ago. i can't remember what market i used and it might have been more than 1.the goal was to stock the area with a variety of goods while i cleared and began to build. i wanted a good supply before there was housing to this area. i found the 1 single vendor clear on the other side of the map not taking stock but actually stocking areas way outside his circle.and i swear i saw him take items from a storage and go down the road to one house drop off,go back to the same storage and pick up and go the other direction to another house. as i had not used vendors before this i was concerned that he was not stocking the area way across the lake,so i kept an eye on him for a while.to me at the time,it was quite strange that the 1 vendor<there was no other vendor on the map>was way outside his circle,i thought that the circle was where they collected from.i was surprised he was stocking other wokers and their houses.he took food from a barn and delivered it to houses.not only did this vendor carry more but he was super fast,as he had stocked all over. the market way across the lake was not totally empty,thou i can't say it had everything in it. my point to all this story is  you say the vendor stocks storage and i assume you mean stockpiles as well. so a vendor would supply a firewood cutter if it was set with a log pile.or stock a nearby barn with clothes or tools. which explains why 1 vendor will stock all the markets on a map. are vendors suppose to go outside their circle and stock markets,barns,and piles outside their circle?? i take it the vendor is not suppose to stock houses?? is their a market mod that has a vendor that does supply homes??? is it possable to mod such a vendor?? if all those are noo ,then someone please find my missing vendor and send him home,i miss him. he was a super worker for sure.seriously it might sound strange but it sure would be nice on the huge CC maps. lately i have wondered if it was a mod that is moved in my mod order.

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Stiles, I just tried to put my findings in a tight and easy to understand form, to the best of my knowledge... they are distilled from thousands of hours gameplay, reading most everything ever posted re: Banished, making many experiments, building even more towns, and discussing things with lots of users for long and sometimes heated hours - but hey, nobody is perfect  ;)

I have been through all the griping everybody else has - wildly cursing those "little idiots" who sometimes do things in a seemingly senseless manner... but somewhere along the way I found peace, just accepting things the way they are and rolling with that - after all, bannies are just pixel heaps following pre-defined rules. They don't have a mind of their own.

My games then immediately became easy and relaxed... :)

 

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A simple fact in Banished, time = distance = production. Therefor time taken to get essentials from a barn is going to impact production, unless you have only one barn, it means many trips to different places, to get what you need, and then you have to go to the stockpile too. Markets are a one stop shopping place, that takes the travel from the producer to a specialized vendor. Considering that goods are scattered across all storage structures, (regardless of closest storage, a well documented function), it makes sense to have a vendor do the walking for all the users of his market. We have many specialized markets that do the same for production, getting the raw materials, a gofer function that does the same, again 1 collector for many users. Its this function that makes markets essential, just like storage size in housing will limit the market visits. Its easy to underestimate one function when you examine it in isolation.

Herbalist are the only way to use health products, which are again essential to survival, 50% of a heart is important when you only have 2 or 3.

The central aspect of these misunderstandings are largely linked to a gaming style that takes the very easy version of the game that comes from MM as the game standard, which it is not for many players. Nor is it the way the game physics works.

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I keep smaller storage areas right next to production buildings. I then put a market in town to collect the goods for the people that happen to live in town. This way the people producing or harvesting goods do not have to go far in order to drop off their goods.

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