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Bro

I've watched a lot of Banished YouTubers...

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I've watched a lot of Banished YouTubers, but the one type that we are lacking is someone who plays like me, a min/maxer.   It seems every YouTuber I've seen is all about making towns pretty ahead of min/maxing it, and there is nothing wrong with that if that's where you get your enjoyment from the game making it pretty is great, I like to do that myself, AFTER I've min/maxed the hell out of it. :)  

So is it just that there are no YouTubers doing this or have I just not found one yet?  This would include someone to explain the production chains fully, there are game mechanics which can be confusing, having those explained would be great.  Example: When you build a market do they deliver just to houses or do they bring materials to the wood chopper or blacksmith for example?  I would think this would effect town layout.  Big market in the middle. surrounded by houses, and just on the outside edge but inside the ring of the market would be tailor/blacksmith/woodchopper/baker/candlestick maker, etc.  Then outside the circle food sources, aviary/farms/pastures etc... and let the market distribute the raw materials to the refiners and then to the homes. 

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Have you tried this series: Town of Tuchus by Conflict Nerd Dylan - I don't see many decorations and things look "crammed together" (lol - to someone who prefers pretty towns) CLICK HERE.

The vendors in markets pick up merchandise from barns and stockpiles - they do not make deliveries.  Workers like the blacksmith can pick up raw materials they need and take finished goods to barns, stockpiles and sometimes markets or if laborers are available, they will do it.  When people need food/tools, etc, they leave work and pick up those items to store in their own houses.  They have to go home to eat.

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The early let's plays (back from 3 years ago when the game was just released) were more min/max than anything else. But unfortunately the players that I saw weren't really that good at it. The other thing is there are no mods in those early games.

I didn't watch that many so there might well be some good min/max games out there. Try looking at the older stuff if you haven't already.

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14 hours ago, estherhb said:

Have you tried this series: Town of Tuchus by Conflict Nerd Dylan - I don't see many decorations and things look "crammed together" (lol - to someone who prefers pretty towns) CLICK HERE.

The vendors in markets pick up merchandise from barns and stockpiles - they do not make deliveries.  Workers like the blacksmith can pick up raw materials they need and take finished goods to barns, stockpiles and sometimes markets or if laborers are available, they will do it.  When people need food/tools, etc, they leave work and pick up those items to store in their own houses.  They have to go home to eat.

Spent the day watching that series by the way, what a trainwreck.  I like the way he talks about the game and he's fun to watch, but I was yelling at the TV many times when he would close the school and have a totally uneducated population.  And then, they were either always in a tool crisis or food crisis as a result of it.   All he had to do was start educating people and productivity would have gotten high enough to handle everything.  That's a beginner's mistake to be sure.  I've done it myself. :) 

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10 hours ago, elemental said:

The early let's plays (back from 3 years ago when the game was just released) were more min/max than anything else. But unfortunately the players that I saw weren't really that good at it. The other thing is there are no mods in those early games.

I didn't watch that many so there might well be some good min/max games out there. Try looking at the older stuff if you haven't already.

I just need to understand some of the underlying mechanics that I don't have yet.  I was just hoping to find a good youtube video on it as well.  I can figure the min/max of it myself once I understand the backbone of it.  Like, if I make a bundling shed and use reeds and then turn that into fuel, will homes use that instead of firewood if there is enough available?   <--- my idea being that I'd rather sell the firewood than use it for fuel in the early game at least.  In the past I've always just collected so many logs and bought them from traders to convert into firewood and that's how I bought most of my seeds/cattle etc.  I'm just looking to do a new town with the most efficiency I can. 

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2 hours ago, Bro said:

Like, if I make a bundling shed and use reeds and then turn that into fuel, will homes use that instead of firewood if there is enough available?

They will use whatever fuel they can get their hands on. You can't stop them using firewood (unless perhaps there is a mod for that somwhere) but if you keep the wood choppers away from most of your housing and the bundling shed near your housing then they will probably use more fire bundles than firewood. On the other hand, market vendors will probably seek out firewood even if they have a closer supply of fire bundles. Market vendors tend to like to stock a variety of goods. Another option in CC is to turn logs into lumber and export that. Same value as firewood but it can't be used as fuel.

Have you watched any of Biffa's videos?

Edited by elemental
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4 hours ago, elemental said:

 Another option in CC is to turn logs into lumber and export that. Same value as firewood but it can't be used as fuel.

Have you watched any of Biffa's videos?

Nice tip, that problem is solved.  Just started a new game Adam & Eve at that and I will be applying that bit of knowledge into things for sure now. Using Lumber means I can put the bundling shed anywhere too.  Just now working my way to a river where I can do Reeds and Clay to start bricking up my roads.  Education and Iron tools all around I just need to keep moving fast and not overbuild houses lest they don't "couple up" properly.   I want my trader near the the bundling shed because it and the shoreman are along the coast.  Having fun with it now, but still need to evolve beyond the beginnings. 

I've started watching Biffa in his current run.  I think I have to go back to previous ones to get the more basic production chain info.   I mean, what's the next great trade item?  Or should I bother beyond lumber?  The whole idea in my mind with trade at all was to buy all the livestock/seeds etc to be completely self sustaining and grow.  Which then makes me ask the follow up, how many people is enough?  There has to be a point of critical mass where people die swiftly enough and only reproduce enough to keep the population level. 

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Not really sure what you mean with min/max, i asume you mean most whats most efficient work a bannie can do.

Like in vanila miners and foresters produce barely enough to feed them while choppers make a ton of value, more then 20 times a miner makes.

In MM and CC there is stackburner that makes charcoal from wood and makes ridiculus amount of value ( so overpowerd imho that it feals like cheating). Also now there are ocupations that even make negative value. Check out this site http://www.silisoftware.com/tools/banished-colonial-charter/ they have a lot of info on most buildings and their output. Its not up to date but its pretty good info for most stuff.

Havent played much of MM yet, but as i can tell its not so much balanced cause of so many different mods, but for me thats life like and fun.

Heres a few occupations that make about 800-1200 of value if placed right, which is great, and that dont have a large footprint. Hunter, gatherer, reed farm, rice planter, tailors, butchers, bee shelter, curing barn...

Most ocupations are part of some production chain so while not beeing profitable on there own make vaalue in a chain. One example that bugs me is Cooper which produces barrels and barely makes any value while also making too small quantity of barrels imho. But with quay fisherman and smokehouse there is nice value in that chain. But if you skip barel making and just buy them from traders there is even more value.

I still havent played enugh of MM to check all it has to offer so i probably missed something.

Edited by Canemane
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You definitely want to build a Stacks Burner asap and produce charcoal instead of firewood; you'll need some lumber and a sawpit is fine for that.  For each Log, you get 11 Charcoal but only 4 Firewood. The amount produced is somewhat reflective of the fact that Charcoal is a much more efficient fuel. However, the game can't reflect that efficiency so you are just able to produce more.  It's also a help with producing enough Furnace Fuel for the industrial buildings.

There are definitely some businesses that The Small Business Administration needs to visit and teach them how to be more profitable.  The poor Cooper should think about more profitable wood products  :).  

BTW: The Silisoftware site info is from the CC 1.06 spreadsheets and in some cases is out of date.

 

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On 2/21/2017 at 11:25 AM, Canemane said:

Not really sure what you mean with min/max, i asume you mean most whats most efficient work a bannie can do.

Like in vanila miners and foresters produce barely enough to feed them while choppers make a ton of value, more then 20 times a miner makes.

In MM and CC there is stackburner that makes charcoal from wood and makes ridiculus amount of value ( so overpowerd imho that it feals like cheating). Also now there are ocupations that even make negative value. Check out this site http://www.silisoftware.com/tools/banished-colonial-charter/ they have a lot of info on most buildings and their output. Its not up to date but its pretty good info for most stuff.

Havent played much of MM yet, but as i can tell its not so much balanced cause of so many different mods, but for me thats life like and fun.

Heres a few occupations that make about 800-1200 of value if placed right, which is great, and that dont have a large footprint. Hunter, gatherer, reed farm, rice planter, tailors, butchers, bee shelter, curing barn...

Most ocupations are part of some production chain so while not beeing profitable on there own make vaalue in a chain. One example that bugs me is Cooper which produces barrels and barely makes any value while also making too small quantity of barrels imho. But with quay fisherman and smokehouse there is nice value in that chain. But if you skip barel making and just buy them from traders there is even more value.

I still havent played enugh of MM to check all it has to offer so i probably missed something.

For me it's not always about economic advantage, in some cases I'm just looking for the most efficient layout I can do.  How many markets do I really have to put down to keep things moving around well.  What's the best ways to use all the various stockpiles.  I chop wood in the forest but on the other side of the map I have my sawmill to cut lumber.  Because a forester works best when there is minimal building in it's circle.  Which would suggest a road, their housing, gatherer and housing, herbalist and housing, hunter and housing.. then storage and stockpile and you're really getting inefficient, so maybe moving the housing out would be best and make them walk back and forth, that would allow the houses to be closer to the market too, or should one put the market in the middle of the trees with everything else?  

There's got to be a more optimal way.  

A better mechanic in the game would be to let us choose the size of our circles, of course the bigger the circle the more people you need to work the whole thing.  But at least then you can make a HUGE circle and just put everything the workers need in it without losing a ton of efficiency.  

I'm using this as an example, but I encounter this type of thing a lot.  like with farms/orchards/pastures and industrial areas where you make your various later stage of the game items.  I know you can optimize the size of those based on what you're laying down, but where do you put the houses? Marketplace, barns and stockpiles to optimize things, and what's a great road layout to take advantage of the game mechanics?  

I know.... I go deep.  lol 

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1 hour ago, Bro said:

 I chop wood in the forest but on the other side of the map I have my sawmill to cut lumber. 

I use a "stockpile conveyor" that I saw Skye Storme use in his Golden Llama YouTube series.  You build 1 1x30 log stockpile from the Forester next to the road into the town and put professions that use a lot of logs right there.  The Forester can put logs into the stockpile at his end and the Joiner can take logs out at his end.  At first it felt like a cheat, but I got over it.

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11 hours ago, estherhb said:

I use a "stockpile conveyor" that I saw Skye Storme use in his Golden Llama YouTube series.  You build 1 1x30 log stockpile from the Forester next to the road into the town and put professions that use a lot of logs right there.  The Forester can put logs into the stockpile at his end and the Joiner can take logs out at his end.  At first it felt like a cheat, but I got over it.

Well thats an very interesting idea. :)

Two questions come to mind. Can bannies walk over that pile or do they have to go around. And does that work only if its 30 tiles in east-west direction cause they tend to put stuff on southern side of piles.

Anyway i dont see it as cheating, more of a offset to a lot of shortcomings of game mechanics

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Not sure if Bannies have to go around or not.  Do they cut through regular stock piles?  I do make sure there's a space at both ends for a road or to cut through.  I don't find it matters which direction I make it.  

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@Bro there is a limit of how deep you can go with optimizing efficiency cause of the games shortcomigs. Game and bannies sometimes act against human logic and theres a lot of aspects you either cant control or would take too much micromanaging. For example sometimes someone dies in a house you built for your forester/hunter/gatherer hub. Someone else takes his work but he could live on other side of map and your efficiency goes way down for some period of time. Theres a lot of examples like this, plus a game can make some very strange decisions sometimes so going too deep for efficiency could sometimes be ineficient itself :)

As for your example with foresters bigger circle wouldnt be more eficient, as can be seen with smaller circle foresters from MM. Forester usualy just cuts old trees and leaves a log whitch then a laborer picks up so a big circle could mean that he has to travel a lot if a log is on far side of a circle which can be ineficient, especialy if he decides he is hungry or cold just before reaching that log :)

 

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9 minutes ago, estherhb said:

Not sure if Bannies have to go around or not.  Do they cut through regular stock piles?  I do make sure there's a space at both ends for a road or to cut through.  I don't find it matters which direction I make it.  

I had some big 10x10 vanila piles but cant recall seeing them walk over them. I remember seeing them a lot walking all the way to south side to put or pick stuff which can be anoying when their workplace is on north side of a big pile.

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I've seen them do that too.  They get used to a path and keep taking it.  That "memory" of the path also makes them take stuff to a stockpile further away for a while even though you've built a closer one.  I've watched the conveyor and have seen them drop off at one end and someone else pick up at the other.  It doesn't matter which end the items are visually at.

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4 hours ago, Canemane said:

iciency cause of the games shortcomigs. Game and bannies sometimes act against human logic and theres a lot of aspects you either cant control or would take too much micromanaging. For example sometimes someone dies in a house you built for your forester/hunter/gatherer hub. Someone else takes his work but he could live on other side of map and your efficiency goes way down for some period of time. Theres a lot of examples like this, plus a game can make some very strange decisions sometimes so going too deep for efficiency could sometimes be ineficient itself :)

Pathing is a bit odd, I had a fire recently and fortunately because I thought about it ahead of time I set up wells.  It was near the river, but there was a well halfway between the river and the fire, what did they do? Yup, ignored the well and just went to the river.  Watching this kind of thing makes you want to throw stuff at the screen.  lol

I've been slowly rearranging things in the town now, specifically where my fields/orchards/pastures are, adding closer housing and such. I'm coming to the conclusion that markets are VERY important and wish I could put more than 3 workers in the smaller ones.  I've just been letting them overlap a bit.  I thought I read somewhere that the traders can carry more than the market workers, this seems stupid since they should both be using the same kind of wheelbarrels to tote stuff around.  The game is great, just a few nagging pet peeves. :)

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I've got Pet Peeves too.

 

pet peeves.jpg

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On 2/23/2017 at 6:38 PM, estherhb said:

I use a "stockpile conveyor" that I saw Skye Storme use in his Golden Llama YouTube series.  You build 1 1x30 log stockpile from the Forester next to the road into the town and put professions that use a lot of logs right there.  The Forester can put logs into the stockpile at his end and the Joiner can take logs out at his end.  At first it felt like a cheat, but I got over it.

Ohhhhhh myyyyyyyyyy .... 

My family are on their own tonight, mumma is plotting :D;)

Thanks @estherhb

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On 2/20/2017 at 10:47 AM, Bro said:

I've watched a lot of Banished YouTubers, but the one type that we are lacking is someone who plays like me, a min/maxer.

I've got a couple of seasons posted.  I try to min/max as much as possible, but at the end I just like playing around with things.  Not sure if it's the style you're looking for, but figured I'd toss it out there in case you enjoyed the content.  I haven't posted in a while due to RL constraints, but at I feel a 1.7 season coming up.

My Channel

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