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309 posts in this topic

Lots of feedback and a lot of work for us! xD Thank you guys! ;)

We haven't yet thoroughly tested compatibility with other mods. It's the work of this phase!

We will make a list of all your comments and we will try to correct as many defects and add as many improvements as possible :hand1:

 

Sorry if I don't have time to respond to the individual comments but I am busy with work these days :S

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Posted (edited)

Hey @Bartender@despo20@QueryEverything & @stiles Some good information being posted here by you all. It's certainly worth us players remembering that NatDiv2 is a beta release and to post whatever strange things we find when playing it and for some of us (like me, with a ridiculous number of mods installed - about 160 I think) to remember that load order is a critical factor and can cause all kinds of trouble if not sorted out. I don't think that NatDiv2 truly has many big problems. In fact I haven't seen anything so far other than the blueberry invasion, that I would call a big problem or even a bug. I think any problems we are seeing are all minor issues - aside from the blueberry invasion, I have collected so many blueberries that I can regularly stock 9999 units at my trader and have used them for around 75% of all trades with the merchants!

APPLE FORESTERS FROM CC: It looks as though the problem with gatherers not collecting the apples is exclusive to CC and doesn't involve any other mods (such as NatDiv, Maritimes or New Flora) so that's good news in one way.

HERBS: The herb problem I had is new for me, I've never had such a difficult time getting a stock of herbs before and I think it is because the blueberries were over-producing and preventing most other plants from spawning. When I cleared the blueberries from areas around the town, the gatherers were able to collect a good supply. As mentioned, I've never had this sort of problem before, usually I would have a stockpile of 800-1200 by year 7 or 8. In this particular case I didn't start to see a good stockpile until year 28.

GATHERER: It's worth noting that in the image I posted showing the Apple Forester and the overlay for collecting wild foods, the reason the Gatherer's Hut shows no resources collected is because I had hit the limit of food to be stockpiled. The Gatherer's Hut was working normally before then and began collecting food resources again after I raised the food stockpile limit by another 20,000 units - no surprise at all but the amount of food stockpiled was heavily biased towards blueberries.

REEDS: Somewhere earlier in the thread, Bartender mentioned that reeds from NatDiv are meant to be compatible with those from CC. This is not happening and I tihnk it is because they are flagged differently. If this is changed so that they are compatible with each other, then that's great but it's really a big problem this should have been --- it's NOT really a big problem, it's more annoying than it is game breaking.

REBELLIOUS CROPS: I mentioned in a reply to stiles earlier in thread that the only orchard crop I had at the time was plums. I don't have a screenshot of it but I am certain that some plum trees have escaped the orchard and are growing nearby. It was only about 5 or 6 plum trees and it took a few years for that many to grow so I think in terms of orchards and crop fields, the Rebellious Crops mod is working fine. However... blueberries. I have never seen so many plants of one type spawn all over the map like these blueberries have done. Even with Pesky Produce, the crops took six or more years to spread over the map. With the blueberries it was only about two or three and they spawned in such high numbers that I believe they prevented other plants from spawning (e.g. herbs). I don't know specifically what's causing the blueberries to grow everywhere or why it's only blueberries growing in plague numbers but that's a much bigger problem than the situation with the reeds in my opinion.

The majority of NatDiv2 appears to be working fine.

Edited by KevinTheCynic
Clarifying information about reeds
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Thanks for your expansive testing Kevin! This is very helpful :).

The blueberry problem: I've given this some thought and done some testing, and I've figured out what the problem is. It's actually an interaction with @Necora's Pine mod, and it's not going to be very easy to fix until he comes back from his Robinson Crusoë trip. Essentially what happens is that both our mods are editing the original blueberry template, which creates a rather lethal combination. We can change ours, so that his blueberries won't spawn in such crazy amounts anymore, but it won't be possible to only have one of the two spawning I'm afraid.

Herbs: I expect that as you say, the blueberries are to blame here. Nothing has been changed to the herb spawnrates at least.

Reeds: I've checked it against CC, and I've identified the problem to be a copying error on my part. I named our file RawMaterialReeds.rsc while the one in CC is named RawMaterialReed.rsc, and that single s makes all the difference :P.

Rebellious Crops: As I mentioned above the blueberry problem is related to something else, so this seems to be working as intended. We'll still need to check if it is indeed causing the problems with certain CC spawns.

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KEVIN do you see any traps or beaver lodges since upgrading the new NAT DIV??? i think those have been knocked out.

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If you keep Necora's Pine mod loaded above NatDiv then those should just be spawned, if you have NatDiv above the pine mod they would indeed be taken out. This is the same as it was with the previous version.

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@Bartender & @stiles (and everyone else!) please note that I have edited my post above because I left out one word that was really important to understand what I meant (which was basically that the problems with the reeds from CC and NatDiv is NOT a big problem, it's an annoying but very small problem - instead my post made it seem as though the reeds were a big problem when I actually don't believe that they are). My apologies for any confusion this may have caused :$

In regards to Necora's Pine mod, I have had it placed before NatDiv in my load order since I first started using NatDiv so I have not seen any problems with spawing resources from the Pine Set. In one of the images I posted regarding the blueberry invasion, (specifically the close-up of the Mini-Buildings campsite) you can see one of the Pine resources (and I think it is the beaver lodge).

In regards to the Herbs, I too don't think there is a problem with them and that it's an issue with the over-spawn of the blueberries. When I started to clear blueberries on a regular schedule, the other wild plants were given a chance to spawn and my herbalists were able to increase the amount of herbs they were collecting from the wild.

The blueberries have been a problem but it can be dealt with by constantly manage them. The large amount I have in storage has been very helpful for trade with the merchants but they are a problem when it comes to storing them - I had to build more barns just to store blueberries and I had to keep increasing the food storage limit so that the town would continue to produce the other food types that it needed.

Other than that I believe NatDiv2 is working as it should work and doing a good job at it. I love the look of the models for the fish trap and reaper (the other models are great as well but I really like those two!) The whole idea of NatDIv adds so much colour and variety to the smaller plants in the game that I would miss it severely if I ever uninstalled it. The idea of having plants change their growth patterns over the course of the year is fantastic - watching these plants "bloom" (yes, even the blueberries!) as the seasons changed  adds another layer of interest and enjoyment to the game. The new resources are useful but I particularly like the extra challenge of needing thatch when it comes to making a new settlement. I'm very happy that other modders have enabled thatch for their mods as well. :hand1:

So yes, I obviously like NatDiv a lot! :D

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Another observation I've made - sometimes when labourers are clearing blueberries from a site, the "Remove" list does not show anything being cleared. Obstacles in the site ARE being cleared, but when blueberries are present, they are not listed as being cleared. In the following image it can be seen that most of the paddock is cleared but according to the menu, there are still 115 items to remove (they were all blueberries). This does not stop the game from running or cause any other problems but it does seem to be linked to the over-spawn of blueberries.

It isn't a problem that needs to be fixed immediately (and in fact it doesn't need to be fixed at all because, from what I have seen so far, it does not stop the game or any mods from functioning as they should) but I reported it because other people might see it and think it's causing a problem. I think this is "an item of interest" rather than a game breaker, it's a small bug that doesn't stop anyone from playing the game but might worry someone if they think it could be a problem.

 

Poyens - site clearing with blueberries.jpg

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KEVIN,i should have asked what version of pine mod are you using?? the latest update was in may???

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Posted (edited)

Judging from the picture, those are the blueberries that are part of the Pine Set. Ours look a bit different, and are probably much less abundant ;). I've found a way to fix their unstopable spread by the way, so the real release version should work better in combination with the pine set. Because of this, the bug with the building menu is probably not related to NatDiv, but I'll still run some tests with it just to be sure.

Edited by Bartender
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@stiles actually that question is more important than I first thought - I am using the 1.04 Beta of the Pines Set. Because it is a beta, there may be other little things here and there that could affect other mods in some way. Necora indicates that it could cause some unknown issues because of this and warns people that they use the beta at their own risk. It appears to be working as it should from what I can tell so far - aside from the blueberry invasion!

@Bartender that's great news about finding ways to stop the blueberry invasion :) I too think that the building menu bug is not related to NatDiv and now we can be reasonably certain that it's all about the blueberries from the other mod. If it can be fixed, then that's great but it isn't any real sort of problem, certainly nothing like the actual problem from the over-spawn of blueberries.

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@QueryEverything you mentioned that the gatherers from MM and from the Mini-Buildings mod will collect the wild apples from the Apple Forester. I don't have MM so I had to make do with the Mini-Gatherers from the Mini-Buildings mod.

After running the map for two years, the Mini-Gatherers are still not collecting the wild apples so I'm thinking that there is something in MM that makes them collect these "wild" foods. Whether that's some mod included in MM that I don't have or a mod that's in MM and that I do have that's a different release version from the version I have, I couldn't say without doing some extensive comparisons (and with all the mods in MM, that's a task I really don't want to do!) All I know for sure, is that there are some mods included in MM that I do not have and maybe there's something there that allows the gatherers to collect the "wild" foods or there's a mod that I have that is preventing them from collecting these resources?

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thanks for checking KEVIN.that confirms what i saw.

 

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@KevinTheCynic may well be a MM thing, because not even Vanilla worked.  I don't have time to play with a few settings for a couple of days, but I think it's worth noting that currently, only MM based gatherers are working, which at this point, makes sense.  

Apart from anything else, it's a known issue, and as mentioned before, it predates here (so I think we can safely farewell the topic and leave @Bartender alone in this regard ;) ), and we can move the conversation back to the original Orchard Tree Forester Posts, where @Kralyerg will pick up the comments :)

In fact, in that thread a player only had 1 gatherer who could work, but I found 2, so there is at least 3 that do work from MM / CC.

For CC users:  What has worked for another player:  Place your Domesticated Animal Gatherer, then Upgrade it to a 'normal' Gatherer - then that gatherer should harvest the items from the forester.

Please report in the thread listed, not here, let's help Bartender & @despo20 get back on track. :D

 

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Note that the Gatherer's circle needs to encompass the area where you want fruit gathered - and make sure there's a barn to put it in.  Since I use Ridiculous Storage, a lean-to is usually all that I need.

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Just a small update regarding Rebellious Crops. As we all know my settlement has been invaded by blueberries xD However where I can keep the invaders out of an area, the other plants have a chance to grow. Specifically regarding Rebellious Crops, if they have a chance (i.e. some ground free of blueberries for the seeds to establish themselves), they can start to escape the confines of their fields and "grow in the wild". I've noticed this with a Plum orchard but I've also just found a cropfield of Squash that has sent out a few plants to grow in the wild. 

So yes, Rebellious Crops appears to be working as intended in NatDiv2 without any problems :)

In the image below, the woman walking on the mossy stone road has just harvested one plant from the Squash that was growing wild next to the Oats field. I had someone harvest just one of the plants to confirm it was Squash 9_9

59631dbeeb669_Poyens-NatDiv2-RebelliousSquash.thumb.jpg.2ede7c1508189027081fe4e895257b48.jpg

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That's great :), thank you for all the testing Kevin!

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10 hours ago, KevinTheCynic said:

....So yes, Rebellious Crops appears to be working as intended in NatDiv2 without any problems...

We call plants that do this "wilding" plants

Quote

a plant growing uncultivated in the wild either as a native or an escape; especially :  a wild apple or crab apple

We have rather a lot of them in New Zealand

http://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/common-weeds/wilding-conifers/

I think the trees look nice  :)

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One of the reasons I agreed to including this effect is because it is indeed something that happens often in reality ;). As the article describes, it's often very harmful. Our crops usually come from other places in the world, so if they start occupying space in the new area they might disrupt the balance in the native ecosystems.

Now the crops in Banished all die in winter, so you won't be having that problem :P. The fruit trees on the other hand would be able to spread if you don't cut them, though it would take them quite some time.

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@Bartender I wonder ...  how are players here going with feedback on play through now it's been out for over a week?  Has anyone got new feedback for you here?
ooooooo and screenshots, I'd love to see more screenshots of how others have been using @despo20's new buildings :D

Has anyone had any conflict issues?  Has anyone had any issues with loading?  Has anyone had any lag issues?  Has anyone had any issues with gamespeed?  Has anyone had any issues with mod conflicts?

I ask because I don't.  But, I run a high-end system so I'm not one who should be giving that feedback, sorry :(  And, I run on 10x speed and I always hit a slow spot at some point in my game where I always, always have to "pause" to move - so again, not the right person to ask.  But, I was curious if others had issues?

I'm not saying there are (I think your code is tight, I think with the correct mod order conflicts with current mods shouldn't be an issue, and if there is game lag - that's something which can be tweaked with via 'the numbers', but feedback is needed) any issues at all with this mod - I love it, I think it's a great 'start condition' map starter, and I use it on every map.  

I am also extremely happy to read you suffer from the dreaded 'typo' too ;) hahahaha :D

 

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Like @QueryEverything, I really enjoyed the old Pesky Produce mod and it was a small disappointment to have to remove it because it caused problems with newer mods. So I am very happy that @Bartender & @despo20 were able to make a new version for NatDiv. I'm enjoying looking around the crop fields to see what plants have escaped to the wilds! The only problem I seem to be having is the blueberry invaders but we know that is not a problem from NatDiv - blueberries have become a completely invasive crop, they have spread over almost the entire map (and I'm using the CC Very Large map) displacing any other plant life.

So in regards to seeing how some other aspects of NatDiv are working, I was able to watch some things in the early years of my town but it's not possible now except in the areas where I have established foresters. What this all means is that I can't provide a lot of feedback in regards to how NatDiv2 is working in regard to plants spawning in the wild now that several years have passed on my map and the blueberries have taken over. However the other aspects are working well, like the reaper and wild grains etc. etc. I do believe that it would be working fine in the areas of the map that I haven't used for my town... if not for all those damned blueberries! :S

I'm at the stage with Banished now that I typically always pick the Medium start with a map that's either Large or CC Very Large but I also include NatDiv2 in my mod order. I like the extra challenge from having to provide thatch for many of the buildings. The models despo20 provided are very, very nice and I am really happy that the collaboration between Bartender and despo has worked so well. Based on how happy I am with NatDiv2 I'm looking forward to any future projects from the two of you. I mentioned before about the reeds from NatDiv2 and CC not matching up with each other but I still think this is a very minor problem and I believe it's the only problem that exists now. It's certainly the only NatDiv problem that I have seen after running my town for a few decades.

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