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239 posts in this topic
19 minutes ago, stiles said:

this would be like unravelling christmas lights or knots from a ball of yarn

Well, but it needs to be done if you want to use those xmas lights again.

I'm aware that there would be a lot of code-digging involved, though it seems that many things (specially the food items) are not essential to production chains...

 

As for "Banished for Idiots" - meh. Nobody talks about "over-simplifying", but about being sensible.  :)

 

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ancient chinease man said"be careful what you wish for" . if you upset the wizards, you will find yourself knee deep in piles of papers and codes. it will be worse than staying after school writing on the blackboard 10,000 times "I WILL NOT UPSET THE WIZARD" while all the other students claw their fingernails across the slate.after which draining swamps full of allligators will sound like fun.


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4 hours ago, Paeng said:

Thanks!

I hope you did not feel my comment was directed at the "Natural Diversity" project, far from it... :)

Not at all ;)!

I do think recoding all the existing mods would be a terrible work.. As for my mod, I'll have a look at what the consensus is and try to not do anything potentially game-breaking.

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A simple food override mod should be possible but it would be a huge job.

If you don't make these foods or buy these foods they won't show up in your town hall list. For traders, just tell them to bring only a small number of foods that you actually want. You do have to wade through the long list once for each food trader to select what you want, but after that you never have to worry about them again unless you change your mind and want to order something different.
 

Personally I like the food variety. I do agree that we don't need 10 different types of cider or 10 different types of jam. But I do like having all the different raw ingredients such as all the berries. I wouldn't want all berry crops to grow generic berries. For the purposes of this natural diversity mod though, generic mushrooms and herbs is fine. Making the forest look more interesting is what's important. I'm very much looking forward to this to being released. :)

I guess what it all boils down to is that there are a number of different ways to play Banished. Survival game, medieval city builder, or town life simulator. If you are aiming for huge cities then details like 6 different egg recipes will just be annoying. If you enjoy growing fresh food and feeding your people hearty recipes then foodmania mods are almost essential.

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Posted (edited)

^ I couldn't have said it better myself. All indeed depends on what your reason is to play the game. One option I'm concidering is to create two separate versions of the mod; one that is only a visual update without any gameplay changes, and one that would include new resources and the likes.

To steer the discussion back to Natural Diversity (I have enjoyed the conversation so far, though perhaps if we want it to continue it would deserve it's own thread), I have finished the Herbiversity part of the mod (for now at least, new ideas might pop up like flowers in spring).

HerbiversityFinal.png.0e2647801135b8a4d272e7302145edaa.png

These are the herbs that made the final cut. Each again with three meshes, and the ones with flowers will have those wilt in winter.

I'm not yet sure what the next part of the mod is going to be. I have been playing around a bit with some Alternative Rocks, but the recent discussion has also given me ideas for some Berryation. I'm also not sure on when to release the first version of the mod. Is it common to release partial mods and update them regularly, or would people find it annoying to have to redownload it every few weeks?

Edited by Bartender
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If you want to release now just put a note saying more to come, will be updated soon. But on second thoughts, will the update be save game compatible? You can't delete all herbs to clear the way for a mod update in the same way that you can delete a building. If you are simply adding more new stuff to the mod and not changing any of the old stuff then it probably would be save game compatible, but I'm no expert so that's just a guess.

The herbs look great. I've never really been a fan of the vanilla herbs. They don't look like anything much at all.

One question - I play with the Cold Realism mod which makes herbs and forest food plants die in winter (just like crops). Will your mod be compatible with Cold Realism?

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to be compatible , it needs to have the vanilla one still there in the game... and then it will be fine :) the new meshes will appear each time a new spawn will grow.

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Posted (edited)

I will do some testing for the save game compatibility, but I don't expect any problems there. as @Ketchup correctly points out, the new herb meshes should just slowly replace the old one as they die and regrow.

@elemental as for compatibility with the Cold Realism mod, I think that is very unlikely unfortunately. It also seems that the original developer of that mod has stopped working on it a long time ago, so asking him for help in making a compatible version would not be possible.

One thing I could do however, is to add a similar mechanic to Natural Diversity (this is one of the reasons why I'm thinking about 2 versions of the mod). One thing I personally didn't like about the Cold Realism mod is that it kills all plants regardless of wether they would normally survive the winter or not (e.g. it's actually not that realistic). The herbs I've made so far are all perennials, meaning that they would survive most winters in real life. If I would add some annual herbs, which would die each winter, I think this could create a pretty interesting mechanic. The annual herbs would for example die as soon as the temperature goes below 0C, but the perennials would only die if the temperature drops below -10C. This would mean that in mosts winters you would be left with only half the herbs available, while a very cold winter would leave you with none at all. How often the latter occurs then ofcourse depends on your climate setting. I would then add a similar mechanic to all organic resources, depending on what's realistic. Mushrooms for example would always disappear in winter, while most berry bushes would only die under very extreme conditions.

Edited by Bartender
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1 hour ago, Bartender said:

I will do some testing for the save game compatibility, but I don't expect any problems there. as @Ketchup correctly points out, the new herb meshes should just slowly replace the old one as they die and regrow.

 

what ever we can do .... probably the original herb mesh will still always exists in the game files :)

so this is ALL GOOD :)

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@Bartender I love your herbs! :D

And I'm very interested in a new boosted "Cold Realism mod", with the features that you mean :hand1:

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@ Bartender.I like these herbs though I do not know about modeling:D

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the kind words!

It's time for another sneak peek:

Herbiversity3.png.29f664d37d47b6e4bae3407ab643d8ac.png

This time I've been working on some annual herbs (which will die in winter), which are a thistle and a papaver (poppy). Next to that I've started working on some new meshes for the onions, of which this is the one I'm most happy with. The original onions are extremely unrealistic (onions do not just lie in bundles on the forest floor!), so I'm hoping to improve on that.

Some other notes:

@elemental please forget what I said before about the non-compatibility with Cold Realism; the visuals-only version of Natural Diversity will actually be compatible with Cold Realism.

As for the full version of the mod, I still intend to make plants and shrooms die or survive winter based on what would happen in real life. This means that in winter, all Mushrooms will die, half of the Herbs will die, and half of the Roots will die. Onions and Blueberries will not be affected. It turns out that making perennial plants die only under extreme winter conditions as I originally intended would be very difficult to balance, so I'm putting that plan on hold until I have done some more research on spawn rates and the like.

I'm also looking at some other ways of improving the realism of the game though nothing concrete enough that I can share yet. Suggestions are welcome though!

 

Edited by Bartender
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@Bartender how will you be going about replacing these models? Are you replacing only the naturalresourcemushroom.rsc etc., or are you editing the naturalresourcetree.rsc file?

Just wondering because for one of my mods I want to add a few Maritimes specific wild resources, but as they are new resources the only way to do it is to edit the naturalresourcetree.rsc template file, but don't want it to become incompatible with this mod because I think they will look awesome together.

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It sounds like your full version will be much better than the lite version plus cold realism.

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@Necora For the visuals-only version I won't change anything to the naturaltreeresource.rsc, but for the full version I will have to add some new natural resource templates to the 'SpawnDescription spawn' part. Unfortunately that's the only way I can make the distinction between perennial and annual plants. Perhaps when we're both done we can see if it's possible to make them compatible in some way?

@elemental Thanks! That's what I'm aiming for ;).

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@Bartender Oh I'm sure we can, not a problem. It is a shame that the only way to add new resources is by editing the tree file. I've tried not to, but I want some wild animals on the map and there is no other way. Unfortunately, this means it is not compatible with other wild resource mods such as the cool wild flora and wild bees at WOB but there is nothing that can be done.

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Posted (edited)

On 27/3/2017 at 5:52 PM, Bartender said:

I'm also looking at some other ways of improving the realism of the game though nothing concrete enough that I can share yet. Suggestions are welcome though!

I think your mod will already a great improvement in the realism of the game!

 

One thing that I would like have in game is a lavender bush, and I know that you could model it in a magnificent way!

It can be used like a natural resource and like an ornament, but it can be wonderful as a crop! Lavender fields like in Provence :x

Lavender_field.jpg

 

Maybe it's not exactly an improvement of realism, but it would be nice :)

 

EDIT: Provided that there isn't already a mod like that and I don't know it :D

 

Edited by despo20
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@despo20 I have concidered lavender at some point, but decided against it as it is not a plant that would grow naturally in a northern forest such as the one in banished. Because of this I wouldn't include one in Natural Diversity, but I like the idea of having them available as a crop. I'll see what I can do if I find the time somewhere ;).

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28 minutes ago, Bartender said:

but I like the idea of having them available as a crop. I'll see what I can do if I find the time somewhere ;).

It would be great! :)

Obviously Natural Diversity remains the priority :hand1:

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There's a great many other things that have priority over modding in general I'm afraid ;), though I have been spending a conciderable amount of my free time on this.

Concidering Natural Diversity, I have made big progress on something that has been on my mind for quite a while:

One issue I had with vanilla Banished is that it has only one habitat type: forest. Many of my new herb meshes are actually meadow plants, that need lots of sunlight and would not be found in a forest at all. What's more is that some of the resources, namely roots and onions, tend to grow in meadows rather than in forests as well. In conclusion, I wanted to add meadows to the natural world of Banished. Today, in some kind of freak accident of messing around with the code (I still don't quite know how and why it works, but it does), I have managed to do exactly that.

Grasslands2.thumb.png.c752f952052bcbad801ead58cd776caf.png

I'm still fiddling with the spawnrates, but the idea is that the world will have patches of meadows, forest and intermediate zones. meadows will then spawn herbs (meadow meshes), onions and roots, while the forest will spawn herbs (forest meshes), mushrooms and blueberries.

Other than an increase in diversity of the landscape, this also gives some opportunities for interesting game mechanics. For gathering huts, which resources they can gather depends on wether there is forest or meadow in their influence zone. For herbalists, which areas are best for them to gather herbs in will depend on the season, as annual herbs grow only in meadows (in summer the meadows will give higher yield, in winter the forest will give more).

Lastly, the grasses that populate the meadows give me the chance to solve another tiny thing that annoyed me in vanilla Banished: many of the basic buildings have thatched roofs, but thatch as a resource does not exist. When harvested, these new grasses will give the 'thatch' material, which is used for construction of all buildings with thatched roofs.

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